| 66 members (Adagiette, Albert Brighten, BlizzardPiano, anamnesis, brdwyguy, butchkoch, AaronSF, Boboulus, 10 invisible), 1,264 guests, and 325 robots. | | Key: Admin, Global Modernistic, Mod | | | OP  Junior Member Joined: October 2016 Posts: 2 | I love listening to classical music and heard Pathetique Sonata Adagio Contabile on the radio 1 day. I started private piano lessons, never having played earlier, later I bought a 100 year quondam Decker and Sons up right when I was 59. I am 63 now and have been taking lessons once a calendar week. I accept replaced the tinny saloon sounding sometime Decker with a Yamaha U-3. Pathetique Sonata sounded easy plenty, like just slow chords. I desperately wanted to acquire this piece. I found it was much harder than I anticipated. I only could play the first 2 bars of music, such that y'all could recognize the melody, after 3 years of private lessons. I memorized the notes and chords in the first ten bars but couldn't play them well and forget virtually site reading at my level on a piece like this. My original teacher would discourage me from playing Pathetique and wanted me to concentrate on intermediate level pieces and technique. I connected to work on Pathetique in private. I've inverse piano teachers now and she has me practicing scales and exercises in Czerny'southward school of velocity I think is the name of the book. I am making progress over again on Pathetique. My new teacher says go for it. She says I tin can learn technique on Pathetique its just harder. I'm making progress again on the slice and now can play about 10 confined of the Sonata fairly well at present. Having an encouraging teacher who loves classical music makes a big difference. I do practice other intermediate music of course but I really would like to finish Pathetique while I'm still around. | | | Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,862 5000 Post Club Member | | 5000 Postal service Club Fellow member Joined: April 2009 Posts: v,862 | I am 63 now and have been taking lessons once a calendar week. If I were you, at your next lesson ... I would tell your teacher that you are going to terminate working on material that is much as well difficult for you AND ... You are going to allow your teacher guide you so that by the time yous are 70 you will be able to play beautifully. Or ... Not
Don Kawai MP7SE, On Stage KS7350 keyboard stand, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser Hd 559 Headphones | | | Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 1 Inferior Member | | Inferior Member Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 1 | Salubrious, going subsequently the song you actually beloved. It's not so much that it's taking you "long" to learn the Pathetique but rather you didn't know that near piano students take x-15 years of lessons before trying to play it. You've made considerable progress towards your goal and I'd bet you'll get it accomplished on the shorter side of that equation. Plus, you lot know, if you accept a goal similar that, y'all tend to live longer, too  | | | Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,112 5000 Post Club Fellow member  | | 5000 Post Lodge Fellow member Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,112 | It takes as long equally it takes. Simply consider this - if you footstep back and learn the basics, it will probably have less time to attain your goal than by beating your head confronting a piece that is too hard for your current level. And there is a lot of slap-up music that you tin can play along the way. I am 62. I started playing again when I was 55. At this bespeak I would feel comfy tackling the slow motility of the Pathetique, although I oasis't done it. Sam | | | Joined: May 2012 Posts: 1,394 k Post Club Fellow member | | 1000 Post Club Member Joined: May 2012 Posts: 1,394 | How long does it take to learn in your threescore'south It depends. How do you ascertain acquire? What take you played in the past? To what degree had you mastered said works? How meticulous and refined is your learning process? These are, of class, rhetorical questions, simply meant to highlight the fact that without working with you in person, I/we tin can only communicate so well back and forth with words how to efficiently and effectively learn to play piano (and therein lies the value of meeting regularly with a teacher). My communication is to call up of the learning process itself as a learning process - that is to say, approach every piece of music and every experience at the piano as though in the third person, beingness sensitive enough to observe what does and doesn't work and using that knowledge to better refine your process of learning to play music (i.due east. make extensive use of feedback or a lackthereof in trying recognize what is and isn't working and what thus needs to be changed; boosted reading here) You'd probable exist interested to know that enough of people have been in your shoes before (with 7 billion plus people in the world, it'd be astonishing if someone hadn't) and one particular case was documented past their extremely meticulous teacher here: http://world wide web.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=2444.0
http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=2893.msg25659#msg25659 The question for me personally is never how long it takes to learn something (because such estimates are rarely accurate unless particularly experienced), but rather, assuming information technology's something I want to bother learning in the first place, how many "chunks" will the chore demand to be cleaved upwardly into, practice I have the knowledge necessary to know how to approach mastering and overlapping each chunk of material, and is this more time and effort than I currently wish to dedicate to the chore before me. I'll recommend again here that y'all investigate the first link provided. | | | Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,039 4000 Mail Society Member | | 4000 Post Club Fellow member Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,039 | Information technology says a lot virtually the difficulty of the piece that you have made little progress in iv years. Certainly if y'all have had a good four years, you are getting close to beingness able to consummate movement ii (other movements are harder once again). If it has been a poor iv years and then I would be asking your instructor if there were some bridging pieces she could recommend. I have used similar (easier) bridging pieces to get to a goal slice and it helps enormously. You simply have to be careful when a teacher says y'all can play something it is but harder. They will be the guide, merely it will still exist your hands and your brain that need to do the heavy lifting.
Surprisingly like shooting fish in a barrel, barely an inconvenience. Kawai K8 & Kawai Novus NV10 13x![[Linked Image]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_vSogsw2Wz2tMjaqy9pfQ0vs6qEFvvm-nkbtVd7YDde8HI8dBySEJjGXkr2lQnFEKvIah7JkqIZRGZpf1hPx2XwvWrVep-g4LbqidYQlych_kDlidaJWcN3C6_M24A=s0-d)
![[Linked Image]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_sGBbnqbRa--aUXKibZB4zgof9qzn_yEzofurMgUrvgsZSi-IEI-eZuGAoA-b5UnclmybIBwfKvyiFE65q-jIKnVz2ypzqgQNGpkIKqaCDV4jugBCWTv4I9Vgxh8d4=s0-d) | | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 9,745 9000 Post Lodge Fellow member | | 9000 Post Gild Member Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 9,745 | My missus had the Beethoven Sonatas merely was unable to play `em because of arthritis. Then I tried, years agp. Idea I was doin` ok, yous know. Then I bought a cd wi this stuff on. I was amazed at the speed. So I upped my game and hurtled forth similar a madman Madmen play mad music. And that`s what came out. Not good. I don`t go in that location at present. . . Waldstein was my favourite, simply I get half way through a Sonata before boredom sets in. They`re too long! I can empathise with your historic period point of view. I`m a few years older and things do modify a bit. There`s stuff I`d dearly like to accomplish which, I have to adnit, may non happen. And listening to Agerich doesn`t help. One lilliputian bit . . . .
"I am not a homo. I am a free number" "![[Linked Image]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_tInIasv9mH2-p12DDitVDnfx8qW9gAt3zDtjGcwTcc89Sy9k5r3A4fN7qYHs8x1ZsjP407GzUg8jrsgXbNsCdV4teqU21HPid3vJTaNp654AfT_kJrWKjl4buNI16h=s0-d) " | | | Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,172 3000 Post Club Member | | 3000 Post Club Fellow member Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,172 | I love listening to classical music and heard Pathetique Sonata Adagio Contabile on the radio one solar day. I started private piano lessons, never having played earlier, after I bought a 100 year old Decker and Sons upward correct when I was 59. I am 63 at present and take been taking lessons once a week. I accept replaced the tinny saloon sounding old Decker with a Yamaha U-3. Pathetique Sonata sounded easy plenty, like just slow chords. I desperately wanted to learn this piece. I found information technology was much harder than I anticipated. I simply could play the kickoff 2 confined of music, such that yous could recognize the melody, afterward 3 years of private lessons. I memorized the notes and chords in the offset 10 bars merely couldn't play them well and forget about site reading at my level on a piece similar this. My original teacher would discourage me from playing Pathetique and wanted me to concentrate on intermediate level pieces and technique. I continued to work on Pathetique in private. I've changed piano teachers now and she has me practicing scales and exercises in Czerny's schoolhouse of velocity I think is the name of the book. I am making progress again on Pathetique. My new teacher says go for it. She says I tin can learn technique on Pathetique its just harder. I'm making progress once again on the piece and at present tin play almost 10 confined of the Sonata fairly well at present. Having an encouraging teacher who loves classical music makes a big divergence. I do practice other intermediate music of course but I actually would like to finish Pathetique while I'1000 still effectually. I was almost exactly the same age when I started 5 years ago. I have a long list of pieces that I hope someday to play -- mainly classical, just besides "Corking American Songbook" works. I know that I'll become to some of them eventually, and some I won't. Learning piano, though, really is a gradual and progressive procedure. One must learn basics first, then movement on to slightly more challenging problems, then to nonetheless more challenging things. And and then on... forever. My guess is that, if you asked him, Daniel Trifonov would tell you exactly which pieces he's learning now, and that they're kicking his butt. Two points: Starting time, at that place is admittedly gorgeous piano music written at every level of technical ability, and a good teacher volition know near of those pieces. I tin't play the "Pathetique" now, and I probably won't always be able to play it. So? At that place are many other beautiful works that I tin and practice play. Second, and at least for me, the process itself is richly rewarding. I love learning new things on the piano, and every time I sit downwards to exercise, information technology's the highlight of my twenty-four hours. Then, at least for me, information technology's well-nigh enjoying a joyous process and loving the pieces that I tin can play -- and that I tin larn to play over time. Final edited by ClsscLib; 11/01/16 11:05 AM.
![[Linked Image]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_sRwf2K_r8Hd5x1ZbbBkC4BRAoznsnagFFXgak8BjBkK71OKm6Ebkt02YrVoT6hoWPVQ5WRFdSobG7CSGeQLo2w3WFMdXWiq4y1ISSpn-duVR2UEza-NEDzHA=s0-d) "The great matter about music is, if the plane goes downwards, everyone walks away." -- David Bowie | | | Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: iii,149 3000 Mail Club Member | | 3000 Postal service Club Fellow member Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,149 | I started, from scratch, at about your age, so I do understand with beingness conscious of the passing of time. But you ask a question in your bailiwick championship that is unanswerable. There are then many variables that all anyone tin can practise is throw out guesses. Starting later in life adds fifty-fifty more variables. My own opinion is that your original teacher was on the right track. Having the carrot of a slice yous really want to play is fine, merely trying to play that piece from the get-go really simply delays reaching your goal, considering all those other pieces your instructor wants you lot to spend your exercise time on will serve to get you there faster and in better shape.
![[Linked Image]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_vI_IZMGaCPyju9P6pVxEOr9D6wNMGu8uRFQUbNcelxH-7u5hxKOZkGXXTkQILUOErLh1lMiGqtfni78rNZEy46O0MGX5zinYurymr2cB9385Cpb-OM1I4NQUmT=s0-d)
Yamaha C3X
In summer, the vocal sings itself. --William Carlos Williams | | | Joined: Dec 2012 Posts: 6,907 6000 Postal service Club Member | | 6000 Post Club Member Joined: Dec 2012 Posts: half dozen,907 | FWIW (I don't teach) -- . . . Pathetique Sonata sounded easy enough, like simply wearisome chords. I desperately wanted to learn this piece. I found it was much harder than I anticipated. I only could play the commencement 2 bars of music, such that yous could recognize the melody, after 3 years of private lessons. I memorized the notes and chords in the kickoff 10 bars but couldn't play them well and forget about site reading at my level on a piece like this. My original teacher would discourage me from playing Pathetique and wanted me to concentrate on intermediate level pieces and technique. I'one thousand looking at the score. Information technology's deceptively elementary -- dainty slow tempo, non filled with black notes. But there are three contained parts, running in the first 8-measure section! . . . And then you lot need enough technique to handle that, with a very legato bass line, the RH thumb and second finger belongings down the centre office, and the residual of the RH playing "melody" (which goes between legato and staccato). And in measure 9, it goes to 4 parts through measure 16. Even ignoring the emotional content, this is _not_ easy music! And y'all _can't_ ignore the emotion, if you lot want it to audio good. Your original instructor had a point: . . . Your life might have been less frustrating,
. . . if yous had adult
. . . the technique first, and then tackled the Pathetique. . . . I am making progress over again on Pathetique. My new teacher says go for it. She says I can larn technique on Pathetique its just harder. I'm making progress again on the piece and now tin play near ten bars of the Sonata fairly well now. Having an encouraging instructor who loves classical music makes a big difference. I practice practise other intermediate music of class but I really would similar to finish Pathetique while I'm still around. A thought most learning music that's "too difficult": . . . Blocking out the harmonic structure might aid you lot
. . . continue things organized in your caput. So the Pathetique opening becomes: . . . Ab Eb7 Ab Eb->Eb7 | Ab Eb Fm Bb | Eb . . . Or that might make things more circuitous for yous. I've learned some things as an erstwhile developed, coming back to piano: . . . Things don't happen every bit apace as I want them to happen. . . . There are some things I'd like to play, that I'll be dead
. . . earlier I main them. So acquit on, doing the "intermediate" music that you _can_ play, until you become expert enough to tackle what you lot _want_ to play. Information technology'south good that your electric current teacher is balancing the two. You demand some candy, equally well equally oatmeal, in your diet.
. Charles
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PX-350 / microKorg Forty+ / Pianoteq
| | | Joined: Oct 2015 Posts: 2,554 2000 Post Lodge Fellow member | | 2000 Post Club Member Joined: October 2015 Posts: 2,554 | And in mensurate 9, it goes to four parts through mensurate xvi. And then you still accept a long way to get earlier yous fifty-fifty become to measure 37, where the right hand starts to play triplet-eighths instead of normal eighths in one of its two voices. That'south when things start to get hectic (and uneven, if you don't have the technique). And those triplets stay with you (fifty-fifty in the LH too) for the residuum of the movement (still almost ii thirds to go from measure 37). Even ignoring the emotional content, this is _not_ piece of cake music! Indeed. | | | Joined: January 2007 Posts: 1,174 1000 Post Social club Member | | chiliad Post Club Fellow member Joined: January 2007 Posts: 1,174 | Hey D52, I dear Pathetique too and I started playing at 60. I figure I'd have to live to nigh a hundred (30 more years to go  ) to sight read information technology merely I believe that I could play parts of it by ear in a week or three where my wife and the 3 youngest m kids would retrieve I was a genius. The five oldest wouldn't fifty-fifty bother to put down their Itunes because it isn't upbeat enough.  Just thanks for bringing the idea up! Concluding edited past Rerun; xi/02/xvi 07:49 AM.
Rerun "Seat of the pants piano actor" DMD | | | Joined: April 2014 Posts: 2,182 2000 Mail service Club Member | | 2000 Post Club Fellow member Joined: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,182 | I started learning Piano at age 58 with a instructor who has been at her craft for over xl years. I retrieve at our interview I mentioned I would love to play Bagatelle in A Modest past Beethoven. Her response, "Nope". From the offset she made it very clear that trying to learn "stretch pieces" is a very very bad idea. So off nosotros went and in the concluding 3+ Years I've made neat progress, and during the journey and then far I've learned dozens of pieces in original course by some of the greats. Just nonetheless, no Fur Elise. Actually, I may be but a few years abroad from giving this a try. "patience my young Patawan"
Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if y'all don't like them... well, I have others."
Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3)
Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF) | | | Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 15,406 Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member | | Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member Joined: October 2010 Posts: 15,406 | I call up at our interview I mentioned I would love to play Bagatelle in A Minor by Beethoven. Her response, "Nope". Just withal, no Fur Elise. Actually, I may be only a few years abroad from giving this a try. "patience my young Patawan" Y'all might want to try this one - she might say 'Yes'! https://www.youtube.com/watch?5=gd2BKPvnkiE
"I don't play accurately - anyone tin play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep scientific discipline for Life." | | | Joined: Feb 2016 Posts: 272 Full Member | | Full Member Joined: Feb 2016 Posts: 272 | From the beginning she made it very articulate that trying to acquire "stretch pieces" is a very very bad idea. Interesting... I am wondering if it applies to all stretch pieces or only those that are style out of achieve, as opposed to those that are a bit of a challenge? | | | Joined: Mar 2014 Posts: i,146 grand Post Club Fellow member | | 1000 Post Club Member Joined: Mar 2014 Posts: 1,146 | Re: How Long does it have to learn in your sixty's?
I started classical piano in the middle of that aforementioned decade.
Oh aye, I fabricated that mistake in arroyo to learning also.
Selecting and hunting for too advanced pieces that sound great and that I would like to learn. Afterward realized that it's not at all necessary to fix my sight on pieces similar that.
Instead, I work on stuff that is within accomplish, gradually increases my skill set, and makes me a more than advanced over time! Simpler textile that I can gradually increase fluidity and even reach a rapid tempo on, which in itself makes it more interesting to play. Any simple material can exist made more than interesting past playing information technology at a breakneck tempo e.g..
There's no simple slice that is decently composed, that cannot be made into a challenge and made more interesting.
There'south no cloak-and-dagger that fifty-fifty a chromatic, or whatever other calibration tin can be made more challenging by tempo, diverse accents, or no accents at all simply extreme fluidity like sparkling water.
There'southward no limit really and merely limited by imagination, skill fix, and familiarity of the material. The complexity, difficulty, exposure by accomplished pianists of the music, etc. is no yardstick whatever. Simply what you can work on yourself and amend with. Guidelines such equally: I have to be able to play this piece in order to be happy and satisfied, I want to play likewise as this person, etc., etc., are real killers to progress and endurance at the piano. This darn instrument is hard enough to learn without adding extra weight to information technology.
Will do some R&B for a while. Requite the classical a break.
You tin spend the balance of your life looking for music on a sheet of paper. You'll never notice it, considering it just own't there. - Me Myself | | | Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 26 Full Member | | Full Member Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 26 | Your question seems very legitimate to me. I am 69, and I started piano later on hearing some Professor Longhair. That was a long time ago (for the dignity of the person involved I am non using real numbers). So can I play any of his stuff? Well, ane vocal, sorta. I have squandered my practicing on too many stretch pieces. Not all of my time though, and I do make progress. Only there is some other way to look at the event. A person might enquire, "How long does it take to gain comprisal to the world in my heart, where the music is warm and comforting and where even the darkest miseries are just more than notes, improve notes? Where our life is played dorsum to usa as sunspot eruptions of joy and love and dazzler?" Or are we in that world every bit soon equally we begin to seriously endeavour? And and then it becomes just a question of how we wish to spend our time there. | | | Joined: December 2010 Posts: iii,149 3000 Post Order Member | | 3000 Post Club Member Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,149 | I remember the real danger in a long-stretch piece is that information technology volition eat upwardly a good chunk of your practice fourth dimension. That is to say, if you are serious nigh learning to play that stretch slice, you lot *will* need to spend a lot of fourth dimension on it. Yous say you don't spend a lot of fourth dimension on it? So you're just messing around, which is fine, we all similar to do that now and and so. But otherwise that piece volition suck upwardly all the air in the room.
Yamaha C3X
In summertime, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams | | | Joined: Apr 2014 Posts: ii,182 2000 Post Club Fellow member | | 2000 Postal service Club Member Joined: April 2014 Posts: 2,182 | From the beginning she fabricated it very articulate that trying to learn "stretch pieces" is a very very bad thought. Interesting... I am wondering if it applies to all stretch pieces or only those that are mode out of attain, as opposed to those that are a bit of a claiming? Good question. I think she meant pieces that are at least several levels higher up your current playing ability, and in effect causes a student's natural learning process to exist interfered with. If I think nigh this some more, every new slice I learn in my Faber lesson books are stretch pieces in a way, but in these cases merely a small step above where I currently am.
Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't similar them... well, I accept others."
Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3)
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